Category talk:Sentai Sixth Ranger
Wait, Even if the White Racer is a false hero, but helped the Carrangers like a sixth member, she should not be on this page because it is not part of this category If so, add the AbarePink on the page of Sentai Additional Rangers in Sentai Aditional Content False :Why didn't you sign your post? Anyway, Carranger doesn't have a sixth ranger, Signalman is an Extra Hero. AbareKiller is a sixth ranger though, despite only being the fifth person on the team - so Abare Pink would not be a sixth. That's why she's not on this page. But if you think she belongs on Category:Sentai Extra Rangers, why didn't you just add her? The page isn't locked. About Kyuranger's Sixth I've been in an international toku fan group for a while and most of the members in there generally seem to agree that Houou Soldier is more suited to be a "Sixth", rather than Ryu Commander. With that being said, I'd like to find a way for us to properly justify Ryu and Houou's member status in the Kyuranger team since both can be seen as either Sixths or extras depending on how you view the situation: 1. Shou like most other conventional Sixths come directly after the main core team in terms of the order of both debut and roll call appearance. However, Houou (as we can see from his recent debut episode) has a lot more personality traits in common with other previous Sixths, while Ryu is more in line with mentor characters like Doggie and Torin who become Rangers eventually. 2. Both Ryu and Houou use changers which are drastically different from the core team changers, much like most modern sixths. In contrast, extra rangers seen so far (including Koguma Skyblue) use a changer that is either identical to or a repaint of the core team changer. 3. An interesting detail to note is that Houou is given the number designation of 12 which is a multiple of 6. His suit's basic format/design/outline also differs from the first 11, much like previous sixths with their core teams. Looking at it, it points towards the possibility that both Ryu and Houou can be counted as Sixths, rather than having to choose between either. Tell me what you think. If we look at all the previous sixth rangers trait and debuts, The mecha is strong indcation who is the sixth; Houou like many previous sixth have single pilot mechas (except for go-on wings and Stag & Beet buster) unlike Ryutei-oh who needs 2 arms to be complete and sixth rangers debuting in the late episode 20's is not uncommon (kingranger, megasilver, gaosilver, timefire, shurikenger). Ryucommander is more like the extra ranger like DekaMaster. I'd say we put Houou as the sixth ranger. Tokusatsu_Kami 20:53, January 3, 2018 (UTC) To quote from a Youtube comment I made (because I'm almost certain it's the same person): "But Kyutamajin is much like Bakuretsu Kyoryuzin, a giant robot on top of the red mecha, which isn't normal for a Sixth Robo combination. Ryu Voyager requiring other voyagers to transform into robot mode is like Dragon Caesar's Gouryuzin and King Pyramider's Battle Formation, in that they can't form their robot forms without other components. Heck, even Won Tiger's warrior mode is an analog to Ryuseioh and not Dairenoh (that falls to Kibadaioh).﻿" --Shinobi Galador (talk) 21:38, January 3, 2018 (UTC) ::We can go even further, because this has been discussed ad nauseum and people still want their opinion to be correct versus the facts as given. In addition to the above, RyuCommander's Kyutama is number 10, right after the core 9 (just like Utchy's Zyudenchi was number 6, despite Ramirez debuting before him). His suit is similar to the core, yet slightly different as the case is with other sixths (Tsurugi's is the same). Recent sixths have been debuting earlier - Shou is no different. We're going to go with the facts, which state Shou is the sixth and not Tsurugi. Sorry Tokusatsu_Kami, but the facts do not agree with you. I understand the rule that once an admin says something it's final, but I'd still like to give my input on the situation if that's okay. *The thing with Lucky being the Red is that he always appeared morphed in every episode, even if it was brief like in the episode where they separated and his group discovered Mecha Madako and he morphed in the last few moments of the episode after not appearing at all before then. Now with Tsurugi, he has appeared morphed in almost every single episode since his debut, only missing a few, which is something that would happen with the Sixth. Shou has not, his appearances being very infrequent compared to the others. Even when the Kyulette has rolled out 5 rangers who aren't Tsurugi, he still goes out to battle with them, raising the number to 6 rangers on the field. That has happened multiple times throughout Kyuranger's run. *Tsurugi's Final is also different from the others. The others all have an All-Star Crash or Constellation Impact, but Tsurugi only has Phoenix End. His morph is different as well, he gets C'mon the Change, whie everyone else, Shou included, gets Seiza Change. Shou does say "Garyou Tensei" though, while Tsurugi shares saying "Star Change" with the others. And yes Sixths have been appeared earlier in more recent Sentai seasons, but that doesn't mean they can't push the debuts back. Misao only fully debuted in Episode 17 of Zyuohger, which is when the average Sixth entrance used to be. And as mentioned before, Tsurugi's mecha forms on its own, like most Sixth mecha. The only exceptions to that rule have been paired Sixths. *Tsurugi started off as a loner operating separarely from the team, which is the case with most Sixths. Also, he doesn't officially join the team until a few episodes after his debut when he gains their trust, another common Sixth trait. Tsurugi has also taken more of a Second in Command role than Shou has, and they even had an episode focusing on that, so this point could potenitally be debunked. *One could compare Shou to Doggie. I don't know much about Dekaranger so I will use SPD names and terms instead. Doggie appeared before Sam did, which was also the case for Dekaranger. Sam was confirmed to be the Sixth instead of Doggie, who was then retroactively placed as an Extra Ranger, confirmed by Gokaiger/Super Megaforce. So, the case is no different for Kyuranger, despite numerical designations. Shou was the mentor who got ranger powers and was assumed to be the Sixth, as with Doggie, but then Tsurugi and Sam showed up and were revealed to be the true Sixths, leaving Shou and Doggie as Extra Rangers. Granted, Doggie appeared morphed much more than Shou did, but still not as much as Sam after his debut. Yes, Shinobi Galador's points are valid and facutal, but as are mine and Tokusastu Kami's. I would personally mark them both as the Sixths, but I know opinions aren't what matters. As you said we're talking facts, and so there is just more evidence pushing Tsurugi as the sole Sixth instead of Shou. Thank you for taking the time to read my long explanation. ShinxBoy1 (talk) 10:06, January 4, 2018 (UTC) :It doesn't matter whether what we say is final - when we're wrong, we are wrong. However, we have a process with expectations in order to prove we are wrong, and since Shou being Sixth is supported by the show itself (Show = Word of God), it would take an absolute miracle to prove that the show itself is wrong. The #1 thing that Tsurugi fans are going to have to accept is the Kyutama numbering - that alone is a HUGE piece of evidence for Shou being sixth because in every other case where that is happened - and I provided one such case earlier in Kyoryuger's Zyudenchi numbering - the numbering system identified the Sixth. Kyoryuger's reasoning also applies here. So to prove Tsurugi is the Sixth you would need to prove the show is wrong, and any number of people's opinions will not meet the criteria we have put forth for that, sorry. That said I will address your points accorringly. 1. The number of shows in which someone has appeared morphed has no relevance to the identity of the Sixth. Why? Because there are 12 rangers. There is not enough screen time for all of them. So it's a matter of fact that there will be times when some are left out. Tsurugi being left out less has no bearing on who the Sixth is. It only impacts how often specific rangers are seen. Lucky is a core member, so of course he will be seen more often. The team's commander is also very important, so he is seen a lot too. Sure he doesn't morph every episode, but then again not everyone will because there's 12 rangers and only so much screen time to work with. Storyline thus dictates. 2.The final attack has no bearing on who the Sixth is. C'mon the Change is different while Shou gets Seiza Change, but remember that Utchy - as the Sixth of the Kyoryugers - also used Brave In just like the others. Thus transformation item call also has no impact on the identity of the Sixth. As far as the debut episode, I can counter yours by pointing out Utchy's debut in episode 9, and StarNinger's in episode 8. Just because they can push them back does not mean that they will. Mecha also has no relevance to the identity of the Sixth. 3. Being a loner =/= Sixth. And yes, Tsurugi has taken a SIC role, but that also doesn't make him Sixth. Many SICs are not the Sixths of their team! 4. And do you know why Tetsu was the Sixth instead of Doggie? Yes - the VI on his chest. VI is the roman numeral for 6. Guess who also appeared after and was Sixth? Utchy. Appeared after Ramirez, but Utchy was Sixth. VI comes before 100, therefore Doggie was not the Sixth. 10 comes immediately after 9, so Shou is the "Sixth". Tsurugi is 12. Oops, no Sixth here! Tsurugi showing up after Shou does not make him Sixth, simply because it happened like that in an entirely different show. Therefore all your points are debunked. Unless you can prove the show is wrong, we are not going to change the Sixth from Shou to Tsurugi. I know there is an entire crusade of fans on the internet desperate for Tsurugi to be the Sixth, but unfortunately all evidence states that Shou is and so that is what we'll be going with, as we always have. Anyone changing it to Tsurugi without the necessary proof will have their editing privileges revoked for a time per wiki policy on inserting false information. To correctly make that change, you have to prove the show is wrong (particularly with the numbering). And that, I'm afraid, is not going to be easy if at all possible. Sick and tired of repeating myself about this at this point. I apologize if I upset you, that wasn't my intention. And I'm not a Tsurugi fan with tunnel vision, I myself would prefer if Shou was named the Sixth, but from what I see, the show has pointed towards it being Tsurugi. And I know that VI is the Roman numeral for 6. But to your point that not everyone will appear a lot, yet Lucky and Tsurugi are the only ones who have ALWAYS been in action since their deubts. Every episode there's going to be the Red on field, and then the 4 other core members. And whenever there's 6 total rangers on the field, it is usually the Red, 4 other cores, and then the Sixth, aka Tsurugi. All of the other points I have made are valid, but the things you say to debunk them are also valid. I personally think the show is pushing towards Tsurugi, but there is evidence pushing towards Shou as well, as you have proven, which is why this is such a hot debate topic in the fandom. It appears to be a mystery that will spark debates until we get an official word saying something different, a word that might never come. Thank you again for reading what I had to say. ShinxBoy1 (talk) 22:24, January 4, 2018 (UTC) https://taiko554.deviantart.com/journal/What-Makes-A-Sixth-Ranger-724735987 - I understand that this has been put to bed, but I still think this would be a good read, as it makes a lot more good cases than I had in mind. ShinxBoy1 (talk) 11:38, January 13, 2018 (UTC) Another thing I've noticed that proves it's Tsurugi. In the line up, Tsurugi is standing next to Lucky, while looking at the ending dance, and the latest episode's ending scene, Shou is on the end with Kotaro, the other Extra Ranger. Or in the case of their first all 12 morph, the Extra Rangers are on either side of the Red and Sixth. In line ups Sixth Rangers are always next to the Reds, with only a few exceptions due to special circumstances of those seasons. I just looked at this for proof. In addition, Houou Voyager isn't in the dock in the Battle Orion Ship, and in the toy version, it's the only one that isn't summoned. The Sixth Rangers are often excluded from things like that most of the time. And from a casting standpoint, it makes sense that Tsurugi is the Sixth. They have the 5 core adult humanoids to do all of the publicity, and now Tsurugi joins them, making it 6. I'll admit this point is very questionable, but the others are very legitimate, and it makes sense. I think all of these, and the link I provided in my last comment, will prove that Tsurugi was meant to be the Sixth instead of Shou. ShinxBoy1 (talk) 06:42, January 15, 2018 (UTC) :You have already been told you are wrong, and that it will not be changed until you can provide sources that proves Tsurugi is the Sixth. Your opinion is not factual. You are drawing straws to try to prove the show wrong. It would be best for you to drop it at this point, because it is becoming harassment and I will issue blocks for that if need be. It does not matter where a ranger stands, or where they are in a team dance. If you want to argue a Sixth human then Kotaro would be the Sixth, not Tsurugi. Right now, you have no proof and I do not have time for theories all day. I will not be discussing it further, nor will I address your theories any further. I'd hate to disagree with a fellow admin, but in a case like this in Kyuranger where conventional Sentai patterns are broken time and time again, all the more that something like the "Sixth/Extra Hero" status should be discussed, especially since at this point in time we are already nearing the end of the season. It is imperative that we need to clear up all the fan confusion as soon as possible; we are a wiki for fans, by fans, after all. This was the reason why I posted my original post on this talk page in the first place, opening it up publicly rather than keeping it to a private discussion. After following the show to this point, here is what I think: By this juncture it is clear that the conventional Sixth Hero formula cannot be properly applied to a season like Kyuranger, which started off with a 9-member core team with 3 additional members coming along the way. (This will eventually be the case with the season after that, which has a combined total of exactly six core team members, but I'll get to that eventually when it premieres.) I cannot deny that there is evidence pointing towards Shou being eligible for a Sixth, namely the "happy-go-lucky Sixth". As the show has progressed since Tsurugi's debut, Tsurugi has also exhibited traits of an "aloof/lone warrior Sixth" who acts on his own accord. Particularly in the episodes leading up to the true final battle (including this week's recent episode), Tsurugi has taken a more frontline role, while Shou has gradually receded himself into taking a backseat role as Commander instead of fighting regularly in battle. I am not, however, taking any sides on who should be the "Sixth". Because of Kyuranger's unorthodox formula and style, along with Toei giving no official word, simply hinging onto plot points from the show will not be enough for us, regardless of whether we support Shou or Tsurugi here. Hence, I have come to the conclusion that Kyuranger does not have a conventional "Sentai Sixth" ranger, and thus I propose striking Ryu Commander off the list and adding him into the Extra Rangers category along with Koguma Skyblue and Houou Soldier. Putting either Shou or Tsurugi into the Sentai Sixth category will only exacerbate a never-ending discussion. Super Lupin/Patren X I just wanted to remind someone that Lupin/Patren X each have a super form now. Titoponce1215 (talk) 03:26, February 12, 2019 (UTC) About Jin & J... Are whoever labelled Beet & Stag as 6th Rangers actually sure they are? I mean, I get that these Rangers do not appear in the Go-Busters verse of Super Sentai Hero Getter 2016, but citing them as 6ths JUST because of that notice??? Couldn't we just wait until there is actualized further confirmation from Toei, Bandai, whichever (sorta like the debated between Shou & Tsurugi)? (I know there was Mikoto & Noel as well but they're completely different scenarios.) XXXXX IIIII (talk) 18:53, December 26, 2019 (UTC)